John Henry Marley: Litigation Associate at Kirkland & Ellis | Boston College Law School '21
John-Henry Marley is a litigation associate at Kirkland and Ellis in their Boston office. His practice is focused on complex commercial and antitrust litigation. He also prospectively advises businesses on contracts and potential litigation risks associated with pending deals or business decisions. He graduated from Boston College Law School after receiving a degree in history from Stanford University. John is also active in pro bono work. His personal mission is to help law students (and aspiring law students) achieve their dreams of working in BigLaw.
John Marley does not speak on behalf of Kirkland and Ellis or any other organizations mentioned in this article, all his opinions are his own.
What made you decide you wanted to be a lawyer?
There's two main reasons I wanted to be a lawyer. First, my family are immigrants here. My grandmother was investigated by the FBI. She was a third party contract therapist to a site that was being investigated for fraud, and the FBI wanted to investigate everybody who had a remote chance of being involved. Despite the fact that there was zero evidence against my grandmother they investigated her anyway. My grandparents at the time were in their seventies, and were completely compliant. They had an attorney, and followed every direction. Regardless, a raid was still executed on my grandmother who was a therapist and my grandfather who was a pastor. The case was dismissed soon after, but the experience of an immigrant family dealing with the American legal system - especially a juggernaut such as the FBI- with no prior experience with the legal system really motivated me to be a lawyer.
The second reason is that as an attorney, you have a lot of power to impact the legal system and make changes not only for yourself but for your family. I work in Big Law and with the heavy commitment to the role, there is also substantial compensation. I have been able to use my job in corporate law to help my family, which is a goal I had wanted to accomplish from the beginning. Thankfully I have been able to help my grandparents out significantly and I am very thankful to my firm and my job, and my universities that put me in this position.
What were some of the factors you prioritize when deciding what law schools to apply to?
The decision for where I would go to law school came with a lot of research. I had a spreadsheet with information about all the law schools I applied to based on their percentages of students that went into Big Law, accepted LSAT scores, and scholarships they offered. After all this research I found that Boston College was the right school for me. As for practicing in Boston, that happened because I met mentors here in the city. I was able to go to their offices, have coffee with them, and develop personal relationships. Since they practiced in Boston, I wanted to practice alongside them.
Applying to law school is exorbitantly expensive, and there are waivers you can apply for. Ultimately I applied only to the law schools that gave me an application fee waiver. Once you take the LSAT some schools will contact you and waive your application fee. As a way of keeping down costs, I only applied to the schools that gave me the waivers. Another factor in my consideration of schools was their "Big Law pipeline." If you analyze the school's admission and graduation data you can see the starting salaries and the percentages of students who received those salaries, which lets you approximately what percentage of students get into Big Law. I also looked at scholarships and the amount of financial aid law schools were willing to give me. After looking at all these factors, I found that Boston College was a good fit for me.
Were there any aspects of your undergraduate degree that helped you prepare for law school?
Mostly just reading. I did a lot of reading comprehension. There's not a "yes" or "no" answer for the majority of analytically based questions in history. To answer these kinds of questions, you take the facts and make an argument about that, a skill that translated well to my job now.
At Stanford you participated in the Mock Trial Team. What were some of the benefits and/or disadvantages to committing to this program and would you recommend pre-law students join?
100% recommend Mock Trial. However, if you are not planning to be a litigator then it is not as useful. Mock Trial is set up very similar to actual trials, and this experience may not be as beneficial to those who do not plan on practicing in a courtroom. That being said, many of my mock trial team members went on to practice transactional law. I am one of the few who now practices litigation. This program really helped me with the skills of litigation; analyzing facts, analyzing data, and the oral argument experience were all skills we really developed through the years on Mock Trial. Litigators -at least in Big Law- don't get that kind of experience for quite a few years, so I was able to use this experience not only in law school but also in helping me understand the training my firm gave me. Highly recommend Mock Trial, but it is a huge time commitment.
I found it really interesting to see how differently people view a variety of topics and concepts, and it really increased my perspective on many topics. Being able to understand someone else's viewpoint and how someone else frames an argument is a big part of being a lawyer.
Other than mock trials, were there any other experiences from your undergrad that benefited you in law school or your career?
At Stanford my class was made up of students from all over the world. One thing we would do is have conversations about a variety of topics, and students would adopt different viewpoints and argue for their side. Even if I didn't end up agreeing with them, I found it really interesting to see how differently people view a variety of topics and concepts, and it really increased my perspective on many topics. Being able to understand someone else's viewpoint and how someone else frames an argument is a big part of being a lawyer. If you are an undergraduate student and you have the ability to do anything that increases your awareness or perspective like this, I would recommend doing it. It can be very beneficial to train your brain to think like a lawyer.
If you could do anything differently in your first year of law school, what would it be?
I don't know if I would necessarily do anything differently in my first year, and I say that because I went into my first year of law school with a completely blank slate. The first thing I did was speak to my school's BLSA program (Black Law Students Association). I found some mentors and told them essentially that I didn't know what it means to be a lawyer or how to be successful in law school, and I asked them basically to give me directions. They walked me through everything from how to get an A on a law school exam, to how to network, to what kind of opportunities to look for and take advantage of. BLSA was also really focused on helping students get the jobs that they wanted, and I credit this organization with a lot of advice and skills that went into preparing for a job in BigLaw and that entire process. They also really, really emphasized the importance of your first semester of law school, so I took that first semester very very seriously. My day started at around 7 or 8 in the morning, and I didn't leave law school until 7 or 8 at night. If I wasn't actively in class, I was doing my homework, or otherwise preparing. That structure made me work so much harder, and I ended up treating law school more like a job. I think this is what helped me to do very well. Finding an organization in law school that is dedicated to helping you get to where you want to go is my biggest recommendation. It is so beneficial and opens up so many opportunities for students.
Instead of doing OCI (on campus interviews) you were hired as a 1L summer associate. Could you speak about the hiring process for summer associates and why you think it is beneficial for law students to be more aware of this option?
The 1L Summer Associate position is not very well known, but I think it is very important. As a 1L you can become a "standard" summer associate, but there is also the Diversity 1L Hiring Program. The legal industry has recognized that people from traditionally disadvantaged backgrounds are underrepresented in the legal industry, and this allows some students to make their way into the legal industry faster. If you know that Big Law is something that you want to do, try to get these positions. Make sure that you do as well as you possibly can in law school. Your job is to get the best grades you can in that first semester to try and get these positions. Once I was hired as a 1L, I really didn't have to worry about a job after that. For two and a half years of law school, I knew what I was doing for work, and it was such a relief not to have that constant pressure to find a job for the majority of my time as a law student.
How was your interviewing process and what advice can you give to students wanting to work on their interviewing skills?
As I said, I didn't go through the OCI process, so part of the interviewing process was trying to find a balance between being perceived as likable, and being seen as professional/competent. Law firms already know that you're smart. They want to know if you work well with the firm's environment. The people who you work with are sometimes the people you spend the most time with in a week. It's important for people interested in corporate law to recognize that sometimes the most important thing for a firm is if you fit the ethics and personality of a firm. If you are robotic in an interview, you do yourself a disservice by not recognizing that this is also a time for you to present who you are as a person.
It's important for people interested in corporate law to recognize that sometimes the most important thing for a firm is if you fit the ethics and personality of a firm. If you are robotic in an interview, you do yourself a disservice by not recognizing that this is also a time for you to present who you are as a person.
I've found that sometimes students from low-income, immigrant, or traditionally underrepresented groups in Big Law can feel isolated when partners and associates from more traditional backgrounds talk about skiing, golfing, their family's boat, trips to Aspen, Europe, etc. It may be difficult to network and connect with people when you feel your life experiences are so different. I think it's important for students to hear that they can be unapologetically themselves in this industry and don't need to pretend or hide, it just takes more effort sometimes to find common ground with some folks. With this mindset, I was able to get the job I wanted. I was very specific, and knew the firm I wanted to work for, and cultivated those relationships to get a better understanding of the firm environment and what they expected of summer associates and full time associates. I also wanted to make sure that the firm appreciated me. I didn't just want to be a name attached to the firm, I wanted to be somebody that they recognized and appreciated. When hiring time came around, thankfully everything worked out.
Big Law really only cares about your grades and your personality. Firms don't necessarily value what you study or do in law school. Law school trains you on how to think like a lawyer, and law firms teach you how to be one. There is no expectation that you come to the firm with any type of preparation.
Firms want someone who is eager to learn. Study what you want, and get good grades.
Should students interested in corporate law study business for their undergrad?
Nope. Not necessary at all. I studied history! Background information can be helpful, but as long as you are willing to learn, you'll be fine. Firms want someone who is eager to learn. Study what you want, and get good grades.
Your practice is focused on complex commercial and antitrust litigation. Do you think students interested in Big Law should know what area they are interested in? Is this something that you were expected to know when walking into an interview with a corporate firm?
No and No. Law firms may sometimes ask you what you are interested in but this only happens with firms that hire by practice group. That is part of the research you have to do by the firm. If firms recruit by practice group then yes, you should know what you are generally interested in. When I applied, I told my firm that I was leaning towards litigation but I wanted to try other practice groups. Thankfully, I was able to have that opportunity. That is one of the reasons I suggest students try and get 1L and 2L summer associate positions, to help figure out what they want to do in their careers.
It's completely okay for undergraduates right now to have no idea what type of law they want to do. That's why I recommend reaching out to attorneys in various fields just to get an idea of what their professions look like. Lawyers are happy to tell you about their practice area if you have genuine curiosity.
I believe you need a certain amount of time away from studying everyday to keep your focus, and to keep mentally healthy. If you cram information 24/7 but you're anxious, then your information retention will not be as good.
What was your study plan for the Massachusetts Bar and what resources did you use?
I used Barbri throughout law school. Their materials were very helpful, and I followed their study plan for the most part. Again, I approached Bar prep as a job. I woke up, and decided to commit to studying for a certain amount of hours, or completing a certain amount of modules everyday. I gave myself a set task or time everyday and then didn't study the rest of the time. I believe you need a certain amount of time away from studying everyday to keep your focus, and to keep mentally healthy. If you cram information 24/7 but you're anxious, then your information retention will not be as good. This was the case for me, so I started to take more breaks and spread things out. I took a two week break from bar prep because I found that I was getting too stressed out. Getting back to that mentality of remembering your reason for doing all of this, and calming your anxiety was really important for me. I was then able to go back and approach my studying with a better mindset.
My advice to students currently studying for the Bar is to really understand their mental health and figure out how to succeed without prioritizing cramming information over their health and moderating their stress levels.
Regardless of if you get the highest possible score on the Bar, or the lowest possible passing score, it's done. You're an attorney now. Nobody knows your score, and nobody cares. I have never once been asked what my bar exam score was. While I was in the midst of studying, I got it into my head that I needed absolute perfection on this exam, and this drove me to work myself very very hard and my stress levels went up because of it.
Regardless of if you get the highest possible score on the Bar, or the lowest possible passing score, it's done. You're an attorney now. Nobody knows your score, and nobody cares.
When results came around, I found that I had overprepared. I think a lot of people interested in law have this type of personality, and so I think it's important to hear that you don't need to know everything. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to be good enough. You will learn how to do your job later, and the Bar has zero predictability on your capabilities as an attorney. Make sure you are not super stressed before the exam. The bar itself is stressful, so if you're stressed going into the exam as well, you start to focus on the stress and not the exam. A lot of people know the material, but they're so stressed about the exam that they aren't able to convey that they know as much as they do.
Do you think you apply this same skill set of prioritizing mental health and planning out your work in your career now?
Yes and no. Now, I have strict timelines to follow. If I have something that has to get out at a certain time, I will make sure it is up to par by that time. Some deadlines are more flexible, and you have to get used to talking to your team about that. The ability to plan things ahead of time, and manage your stress level is very important. Ultimately, there are some times when you will feel overwhelmed. If you're able to take a step back, communicate with your teams, and figure out where you are in whatever process you're trying to complete, then that can help you manage your workload and stress.
What does a typical day look like for you/Do you have "typical days?
As an attorney, no one is really looking over your shoulder. You aren't required to clock in at a certain time and clock out at a certain time. You are in charge of your own schedule. Some days I start early, others are later. There's a lot of flexibility in your day, as long as you put in the hours.
As a litigator, the first thing I do is check my emails. I typically know what assignments I have due on certain dates, so I just start completing those. As a junior attorney, different tasks tend to come up everyday. You need to be prepared for your schedule to get moved around a bit and end up completing a few different things than what you had originally planned.
You will find ways to connect with people no matter what your background is, so don't try to change who you are into what you think a Big Law lawyer is supposed to be.
What is one takeaway you have from working in Big Law?
Bring your whole self to this profession. When I came into the legal industry I was kind of reserved, I came from Jamaica, there aren't lawyers in my family, and some of my classmates seemed to be farther ahead than me. They had been around lawyers their entire lives, they knew their practice group, they knew all the firms, and seemed to know what was going on more than I did. My mentors always told me not to be ashamed of who I am, and to always be willing to ask questions.
I have never been afraid to say I don't know something, and there hasn't been any harm to my career or reputation because of it. I always try to learn more about what I don't know, or ask in the moment. One of the big culture shocks for me happened when I was a 1L summer associate. Some of the associates were talking about their weddings, and they were saying that a fifty thousand dollar wedding was cheap. When I heard that I was shocked, but they seemed to talk about it as if that was the bare minimum for someone to spend on their wedding. I realized then that these people move in a different circle than I do! I didn't even think weddings could cost that much money. Regardless, I was taught not to let things like this dissuade me. I brought my personality, and my identity to the firm and tried my best not to waver from that. You will find ways to connect with people no matter what your background is, so don't try to change who you are into what you think a Big Law lawyer is supposed to be.